Friday, December 07, 2007
Ron Paul
I don’t know what to think of Ron Paul.
His message is a very seductive one to small government conservatives, in the same way that Ayn Rand is seductive. Individualism, freedom, and peaceful isolationism, a world where we live and let live. Low taxes. Little government interference in our lives either economically or socially. However, just like with Objectivism, once you leave the Ivory Tower world of theory and examine the real world consequences of these proposals, the appeal of the whole thing starts to fade.
I can thank Ron Paul for two things.
One, he and his supporters have gotten me to study and think about the differences between conservatives and libertarians, and to decide what I really believe. Though I’ve discovered that it is virtually impossible to reason with a Paul supporter, I still feel compelled to come to the table well armed with reason and facts. I am better for it.
Two, the Ron Paul movement has started a discussion in this country that we haven’t had in quite a few years, about smaller government, freer markets, lower taxes, etc. I heartily approve of the Bush tax cuts, but in most other respects, Bush has completely ignored the small government wing of his party. I find it unfortunate that many of those people have chosen to jump ship and side with the libertarians, but I can understand their frustration. My only hope is that the Paulites present their arguments in a reasoned and responsible manner. There is plenty of opportunity to make the masses turn away from those who advocate small government simply by associating the movement with a lunatic fringe. They could easily do more harm than good, in the long run.
Unfortunately, being ideologically pure seems more important than having a positive effect to a lot of libertarians. Be true to yourself, man. It’s not a wasted vote if you really believe in it. Yeah. Right.
I’ve prepared myself for the inevitable. Perhaps I’m declaring defeat a year in advance, but here are my predictions.
The 2008 election cycle will combine all of the worst elements of 1992 and 1996 for the Republicans. Not only will we have a Perot-like figure to split the Republican vote, we will also have a Republican candidate that is either liberal enough to alienate the base or insufficiently charismatic to sway the moderates. Either one of these things spells trouble for the Republicans. Put together, it’s going to be a tough election cycle.
I think the best thing Ron Paul could do at this point is participate vigorously in the primaries, get people talking about smaller government, expose his isolationism as deeply flawed, lose graciously, and then go away. I think more likely he will attract anti-war and so called civil-libertarian types from both sides of the aisle, throw a tantrum when he loses in the primaries, declare he is running as an independent, and then spoil the elections for the Republicans.
It’s going to be an interesting year, and an even more interesting four years after that.
Comments
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Here’s the part I can’t get… A government that doesn’t allow people to have the government they want isn’t “small government.” Well, it’s a very small, but TOTALITARIAN one. That isn’t how I define “small.”
What Paul supporters often seem to want is “I want you not to be able to have the government YOU want, in favor of the one I want… even though I’m in the minority.” They want small government that says, “Do what I say!”
Unless folks are willing to fess up to taking ownership of THIS government, AND talk about it with respect to Congress, not the Executive (who can do Jack Shit about it), then they’re just blabbering. They don’t need the vote. They need a civics lesson.
People don’t want what Ron Paul is selling and, as you fear, he is giving LIMITED government types a bad name by being associated with Paul and his lunatic/ignorant minions.
Mrs. du Toit | 12/9/2007 04:40 PM CDT -
At least youre paying some attention
Do you know what happened yesterday?
6 Million. One. Day.You didnt donate to your candidate because you bought too much coffee, Paul supporters maxed out their credit cards and told their families not to give them gifts and just donate to the campaign instead.
It is entirely spontaneous movement that has nothing whatever to do with Paul himself, just the message. It is organized simply by the force of will, entirely separate from the ‘official’ campaign.
We marched on downtown santa monica. 1000 people and a very loud bus. It was deafening, stunning, moving and it happened in various cities all over the country.
The look on peoples faces was priceless, ranging from shock to joy to tears. An 8 year old girl with a bullhorn lead the charge and behind her were people of every age into their 80s
Its not about Paul, its about an idea. People are already talking about where the movement goes if Paul doesnt get the nod. Its almost irrelevant at this point. Hes not going away.
EEKman | 12/17/2007 06:36 PM CDT -
Did the marchers wear brown shirts and hand out little yellow armbands to the Jews?
I just wondered, because the last time a group like that suggested folks do that and that it was all about the idea, it was exactly that.
That’s the scariest and most fucking ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Eric, quit it. You’re supporting a dangerous man because you’re caught up in thrill of an idea. The idea and your brothers in this idea are not doing anything good. They’re supporting the ideas that if carried out would see the death of millions. Fortunately, only a small percentage of people are stupid enough to support it.
That $6 million? Totally useless. Paul won’t get more than 3% of the national vote, let alone lose in the primaries.
No single individual was the hero of the movement that swallowed up these lives. The Idea was its hero. It was, as a historian of the revolt has called it, ‘a daydream of desperate romantics.’ It had its theorists and thinkers, men of intellect, sincere and earnest, who loved humanity. It also had its tools, the little men whom misfortune or despair or the anger, degradation and hopelessness of poverty made susceptible to the Idea until they became possessed by it and were driven to act. These became the assassins. Between the two groups there was no contact. The thinkers in press and pamphlet constructed marvelous paper models of the Anarchist millennium; poured out tirades of hate and invective upon the ruling class and its despised ally, the bourgeoisie; issued trumpeted calls for action, for a ‘propaganda of the deed’ to accomplish the enemy’s overthrow. Whom were they calling? What deed were they asking or? They did not say precisely. Unknown to them, down in the lower depths of society lonely men were listening. They heard the echoes of the tirades and the trumpets and caught a glimpse of a shining millennium that promised a life without hunger and without a boss. Suddenly one of them, with a sense of injury or a sense of a mission, would rise up, go out and kill, and sacrifice his own life on the altar of the Idea.
The Proud Tower, Barbara Tuchman, 1962
Mrs. du Toit | 12/18/2007 07:04 AM CDT -
The ideas you support have alreadycaused the death of millions.
“That $6 million? Totally useless. Paul won’t get more than 3% of the national vote, let alone lose in the primaries.”
Im going to keep this one for posterity.
EEKman | 12/18/2007 02:48 PM CDT -
Obviously, you have not done any research on the differences between isolationism and non-interventionism… They are completely different....
Ron Paul does not want to stay isolated, he wants to trade, travel, and be friends with other nations… this seems like a much more “logical” foreign policy then invading other countries that are no threat to our nation. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and there was no WMDs. Now, there are thousands of dead U.S. soldiers, tens of thousands wounded and hundreds of thousands dead civilians.
Go do your research and you will find that he is not an isolationist. You do not know what you are talking about.
Thanks,
EA
EA | 12/18/2007 03:08 PM CDT -
Instead of viewing this idealism found in the fervent support of Dr. Paul as a throwback to 30’s and 40’s Nazi rhetoric, you may want to examine the history of our own nation as it compares to this current movement. You can start with the year 1776!
Response from Mrs. du Toit: The Declaration of Independence, you mean the document where people stated that they had a right to form a government of their choosing, even if the minority didn’t agree? That’s the part so many Paul supporters do not get. Not allowing and respecting a people’s right to form a government of their choosing and imposing one on them by party fiat, are the opposite sides of the totalitarian coin. The People not only elected George Bush. They confirmed their choice, and this war, a second time.
All Ideas are not noble, regardless of how passionate people are about them. As Bill Whittle once commented, some of you are to be congratulated. You guys really do get the buzz out there, far in excess of your numbers, but passion aside, you’re still just following the herd… right over the cliff. Fortunately, most people aren’t as gullible and desirous of feeling so involved in a movement that they’ll sign on to anything, just to be a part of something. If you think that all the totalitarian movements of old got started by people saying, “Gee, I think I’ll join up with an evil totalitarian regime and terrorize people and commit horrid atrocities against others!” rather than “Gee, this Idea makes me feel passionate and involved and makes insigificant me feel powerful!” you’re even dumber, as a group, than I gave you credit for.Joe | 12/18/2007 03:12 PM CDT -
Eric, go away. Really. You are my nephew and I will think kindly of you for that reason, but your opinions and your ignorance of history is embarrassing and is something to be ashamed of. You’re not 15 years old anymore. You are a grown man who refuses to educate himself with facts.
Doing something evil out of ignorance or with knowledge is still evil.
Really.... I do not want to have anything to do with you anymore. You refuse to crack a history book and will listen to what any charlatan tells you, and in this particular case, very evil Charlatans.
I can’t fix stupid. You are stupid. Your actions are getting our soldiers killed and emboldening our enemies.
You are actively supporting something that I think is wrong headed in the extreme, and has been proven to be dangerous.
You can’t or won’t see that. That’s fine, so I have chosen not to have any future contact with you because of it.
Now go off and play with the other Useful Idiots whom you have befriended.
Mrs. du Toit | 12/18/2007 03:13 PM CDT -
I am a veteran of OIF 2 & 4 as well as a tour in Bosnia… and I must say that I agree with everything Dr. Paul has to say about foreign policy.
Everyday in Iraq, I woke up not knowing what my mission was, what I was going to do that day, and questioned all the leadership that was advocate of the Bush administration. Its a shame that we have to sign DoD to make us shut up, because there are many many many of us that are very opposed to this war. We realize that it is a waste of time, money, and more importantly… human life.
Most of in the service have lost any confidence in this government. We realize that there is no such thing as a democrat or republican - they are in the same bed. Republicans come into DC - they take us to war - Democrats take over Congress - they haven’t done anything - and both sides are nothing but talk making false promises about the same BS that we’ve been hearing over and over. Ron Paul brings a different message of consistency. The smaller the government, the better. The more independence we have, the better. The better image we have across the world, the better.
Im sick and tired of these fear tactics. Not also do the American people have to pay for it, but we soldiers just keep doing tour after tour after tour. The argument that everybody makes “thats the job of the us soldiers” is getting VERY VERY OLD! We have families… We have lives… we have jobs… our job isn’t to invade a country (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq).
To ugh, Mrs. du Toit there… dont talk about polls because anybody with mind will realize that polls are useless - not that $6 million Paul raised. How can you accuratly trust a poll when:
1) they ONLY use landlines. More and more people are using cell phones and VoIP (which is not counted)
2) they call those who voted in 2006. How many members did the GOP lose in 06? Enough to skew this poll
Polling is a joke
Omar | 12/18/2007 03:21 PM CDT -
Oh, gawd. The Paul groupies have found this site.
Sorry, Farmer, I’m closing comments on this post.
I can’t stand these people because of their anti-semitic/dangerous ideas, and won’t (even for you) allow them a platform on this site.
Mrs. du Toit | 12/18/2007 03:25 PM CDT
